but listen, we know now, intelligence tells us now that bashar assad in syria has sarin gas and he is partially loaded them on his fighter bombers that now pretty well established. it's not just fox news reporting it and nbc news reporting it. it's intelligence sources in washington and elsewhere abroad. now it is pretty clear that they have taken at least the preliminary steps. however, and here is where i differ from the vice president, i believe that the secretary of state, hillary clinton, and the president of the united states has made very, very clear that that is our red line. we will not allow syria to use weapons of mass destruction -- >> gretchen: how do you stop it? >> i think you have to militarily, sadly, gretchen, i think it would mean the direct involvement of the united states and nato in -- >> brian: and they're welling up troops on the border right now. >> i think it's pretty clear if assad was to take that last desperate step, it would be his end. >> gretchen: i guess my question is timing. let's say that he decides to do it. how do you stop that? you might stop it